103: Former Head of NOAA & Navy Admiral - The "Go Fast" UAP Wasn't From Any Known Human Source & USOs Are Stalking Our Submarines

Welcome to Going In Blind. I'm your host, Zach Tidwell, and my guest this week is retired Rear Admiral Dr. Tim Gallaudet, who, amongst a bunch of other incredible things outside of his military career, like becoming the head of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and about a million other things, has become very prominent in the UAP space.

This is a territory that we haven't gotten into on the show before because I've been. waiting to do so with someone of his caliber, because I think that it really eliminates a lot of the easy dismissiveness that people can have around some of these subjects. So very excited to get into all of that today.

But without further ado, I want to get into this. So Tim, thank you for being here. It's great to be here, Zach. Thanks for having me on. Yeah, man. I feel like for a guy who went into the Navy just wanting to be an oceanographer, you've kind of outdone yourself a little bit.

And like any of us who served, I was carried by a lot of really good shipmates. And that's the only reason I'm where I am. And I'm grateful for that. Actually, we're here to discuss a number of things. My new book is out called Holding Fast in Heavy Seas.

And that's the story about all the great leaders who I learned from and soldiers and sailors and airmen who I worked with and carried me. And then, yeah, so there is a leadership book. Yeah. Did you do an audio book for it? Not yet. Not yet. This is first week of publishing.

So depending on sales, I think that my publisher will come to me and say, oh, let's do it all right. Maybe we'll do an audio book. I hope so. Yeah, if you do, you'll have to let me know because I'd love to check it out. Yeah, you bet.

Especially if you read it. You got to read your own. I feel like that's the way to do it. Yeah, so will do. yeah but you know we we've got so much territory to cover here that i i do kind of want to jump right into it with the i think a good place to start is probably if you can bring everyone up to speed on the circumstances surrounding the exposure and kind of your entry into this the uap world when you were still in in the navy and right right yeah you bet zach so yes uh it was a day i'll never forget because i had been open -minded to this idea of uafos uap being real uh only because i was the superintendent of the u .s naval observatory and i had all these astrophysicists that worked for me and they monitored star positions and brightnesses and i got in this appreciation for how large the universe is and with a hundred billion stars in our own galaxy which is absolutely mind -boggling to think about and then trillions of galaxies in the observable universe that's just it's just myopic i think we could be the only intelligent life ever to evolve especially when we know Life is a property of the universe because we're here.

Anyways, that was always in my mind. But the circumstances surrounding my being convinced of this reality was when I was a one -star admiral. And I had a number of sailors under me. They were meteorologists or actually aerographers, mates is the Navy rating. I was in charge of all of those in the Navy.

And they were deployed on various ships. One ship being the USS Theodore Roosevelt, an aircraft carrier that was doing an exercise, a pre -deployment workup off the east coast of the U .S. I participated in the exact kind of workups I've been. I served on an aircraft carrier, the USS Kitty Hawk, and I had aerographers mates that reported to me throughout my career.

So this is something I knew really well. And they were on the ship. And at the time, this was a now well -known naval aviator named Lieutenant, then Lieutenant Ryan Graves, and his squadron mates were encountering these UAP frequently. And not only just individual UAP, but actually formations of them, fleets of them.

And they were interfering with air ops. And one really famous incident, Ryan talks about a section of F -18s flying close together got split by UAP, which is basically red flags all around. You don't want anything close to you when you're flying an F -18, certainly not in between a section.

And so that's what prompted the two -star admiral of the command I was under, the Fleet Forces Command. The operations officer was a naval aviator and two star. And he sent an email to all the staff and subordinate commanders. Urgent safety of flight issue was the subject line.

And in it, he asked if we knew what was going on, what these were. And he attached the go fast video. And I knew right away that that was not ours. We don't do testing of advanced technology demonstrations and training ranges, especially during that particular exercise act. Like I said, the main job of Fleet Forces Command was to prepare naval forces to deploy to combatant commands.

And so that exercise, it was called Comp 2X, is something that is very, very just packed full of evolutions. So ships can get certified to do what they need to do, engineering drills and like that. And all the carrier, all the pilots had to get certified to land on the carrier.

so this is really this is really compressed and so to have that that email come across my desk was just just i never expected it and of course then seeing the video knowing it wasn't our tech with total certainty knowing adversaries don't have that kind of tech because i had been read into all sorts of compartmental programs uh it just was eye -opening you know and i i'll never forget it And so and then, of course, even more convincingly, the next day, the email was wiped from everybody's computer.

And at future meetings of the staff and the subordinate commanders that I would go to at Fleet Forces Command in Norfolk, no one talked about this. And so I concluded that, well, this UAP must be in either a compartmental program or be of a higher classification than TS.

And I had a TS top secret clearance. And that was confirmed to me later by Jay Stratton, who I didn't know then, but now we're working together. And when I was in the Pentagon, I worked in the Navy's N2N6 department, which is their intelligence, oceanography, cryptography department. And Jay was a senior civilian in the same.

And so I later learned that he was the one that directed those emails be wiped because at the time. They were investigating UAP, but they weren't sure if some of them were foreign tech. Now, foreign technology is always highly classified. We just do not want our adversaries knowing what we know about them.

And that gives us a clear advantage. So any foreign technology is usually super classified, highly classified. And Jay, originally, they wiped the computers from that secret level network because they weren't sure. But then later on, after analysis and work with the UAP task force, he was able to conclude that, no, that's not ours and it's not the adversary.

It's something altogether different. And I think, I mean, this was my entry into this world, I believe, was hearing David Fravor talk about his incident. And then, of course, I've heard Ryan Graves talk on podcasts and stuff. And so, but all of that. I became aware of all this stuff after I lost my sight.

So I've never seen the Tic Tac. I've never seen the Go Fast video. But I mean, like I said during the intro, when it gets to a certain level of a person's credentials, it's very hard to dismiss this stuff. Oh, yeah. I mean, think about this. So Dave Fravor and I are friends.

I worked on aircraft carriers. The Naval Aviation Community was a giant customer and partner of mine because I was the chief meteorologist of the Navy. And our top job, our rating, the aerographer rating and the meteorology and oceanography officer specialty, primarily designed for safety of flight when Naval Aviation started taking off in the early 1900s.

And so, of course, we have added to our mission set, but oceanography and hydrography. So this is my main customer in the Navy is aviators. And I trust them. Look at Dave. Dave is very credible. He was a commanding officer of a squadron. And, hey, he knows what he saw.

And I've talked to him. I've talked to Alex Dietrich, which I think was with him in that sighting. And they're very credible observers. And, in fact, and then Ryan, too. Ryan and I are friends now. And I support his nonprofit called Americans for Safe Aerospace, which is seeking to get the FAA and to make a reporting system for commercial pilots.

really just reduce the stigma of reporting for civilian aviators which is and he's getting traction he's got a whole uh he is the largest ufo non -profit right now and i think he's doing great work but yeah and so describe the i'll describe the object for you quickly so you you've seen aircraft of course and you may have seen aircraft on the radar have you when you when you had your slides at yeah so i was i was a grunt in the marines and i was a jfo as well so i i've i've gotten a little more insight into that world than a typical person would you know not obviously to the extent that someone like you would but yeah i'm familiar with all that stuff yeah well so this this uh this forward -looking infrared uh video uh it shows the object this go fast basically a spherical white object moving and apparently it looks like a high rate of speed only because of the perspective over the waves but it's moving rapidly and and the pilots are having a hard time to lock on it.

And when they finally lock on it, they get excited because they've been seeing many of these things. In fact, this was in a formation of four. The video doesn't show that, but the backstory, it's known. And it has no flight control surfaces or visible means of propulsion. There's no blades.

And it's just moving. So we just don't understand how these things are controlled. They appear to have intelligent control. Other videos of these types of craft now are being released by the Pentagon, and they're clearly not balloons. Some move at right angles, and we see others going into and out of the ocean.

So some of the debunkers like to say, oh, yeah, it could just be a balloon or a bird. And, I mean, these guys are trained observers. Military pilots are getting infrared lock on this thing, and they know what they're looking at. They've seen birds before. They have hours in the cockpit.

and observing all types of things in the air so uh it's just becoming more more known now and gladly with the efforts of congress and now uh um this uh the uap files are being released by the pentagon yeah not so i didn't know the go fast video was a formation and then but i what i i have known about And I'll just clarify, Zach.

So in the video, it's just one object. But the backstory is that aviators who were seeing it, they saw several others with it. This is not on the video. And was this, because you mentioned, it sounded like this was Ryan Graves' squadron. I know he wasn't the pilot for this, that captured this video.

Correct. Okay. So the other part of this, I mean, you already mentioned it. There's no heat coming off of these. There's no visible means of propulsion. But in its being, I mean, that's a visual sighting with the FLIR, like with the targeting pod. But then you guys are seeing it on it's across multiple sensors as well.

The ship seeing it on radar. It's not just again, you can't. It's hard to dismiss once there's multiple systems of differing mediums picking this thing up. Right, right. Exactly. And now that's what I'm now on a new group called the UAP Science Advisory Council that reports to the officer director of national intelligence.

It was approved by the White House. And we're looking at all we're trying to get more of the data released so we can do some real rigorous research into these objects and identify. speeds and altitudes and and actual movements uh and just better characterize these and potentially identify how they work and and really properly research this in an open way yeah when so when they they wiped your guys's emails and then it's all hush hush about it were they i mean i'm assuming you had some questions were they just telling you to shut your mouth or what was the error right no no because i was smart I was smart enough not to do that.

And what I mean by that is I know the procedures for what happens when you have what they call spillage of a higher classification type of data onto a lower classification network or system. When that happens, basically there's damage control work to be done and you remove all the data from the system.

And once I saw the email disappear, I knew exactly that. And I wasn't surprised. Because it's so rare. It was the first time I had ever seen something like that. So it was easy for me to conclude, OK, it's probably a TS, at least minimum TS, probably higher compartmented type of information.

And so I wasn't even I was I knew enough about those procedures to not even ask the question, even though it didn't sit well with me because it was a safety of flight issue. And again, my job was safety of flight. So the fact we were ignoring these really these security threats in our own airspace.

was really bothered me. And that's why one of the big reasons I have spoken out is you have people like Ryan Graves, who's a lieutenant, Dave Fravor, who retired as a commander, Alex Dietrich, who I believe retired as a lieutenant commander or left the service. And I thought, okay, I know this to be real.

And I wanted to give these courageous witnesses some top cover, just like any good leader should do. And that's really my main motivation for coming out. Well, and that's, I mean, even for you, I mean, you're included in that umbrella of courageous people stepping forward. And I think it's, I think with your guys' careers, it's impossible for that to undo, right?

You're not, I think you guys have achieved so much that it's not. you're not jeopardizing that and i think that also speaks to the fact that you guys are also very secure in what you've accomplished i think you know as just as a as a human as a man like very secure about what you've done you're like hey i'm willing to to throw this out there and because there will be people who treat you like a fool but i oh they're out there absolutely this is true but it's just it's it's wild to me i mean it's such a foreign world i think for everybody to see at that that level i guess or get an insight into like this is how i'm sure that's not the only split spillage that's happened with an event like that this is just one that's finally being talked about but when you know years later when you were able to connect with jay stratton Because you you said at the time he was on the civilian side, but he was part of of them wiping that off of the systems.

I mean, was. When you finally got that confirmed that that wasn't foreign tech, I mean, did he let you know why it was or how they were able to confirm that it wasn't or just, hey, we have nothing in our systems that has ever indicated that this exists in a.

Yeah, I'm not asked that question directly, but I know enough about his job that he was leading the UAP task force. And that's what they did. They did more research on this, these objects at the time. And they were able to look at what everybody with the Chinese and the Russians had.

And they realized, nope, that's that wasn't them. So that just took a little bit of a forensic analysis and access to other. classified pieces of information to know what they had and where they were and so and i didn't know this until uh not not too long ago because we just never had the discussion so it was probably maybe within the last year that we we talked about this wow okay that's kind of wild because when this was in 2015 right that yeah okay that's kind of crazy was that i i guess once you guys had that conversation did that kind of secure beliefs for you or what you already had believed yeah it reinforced it absolutely yes uh and i had to yeah i so i remember i left after 2015 i stayed in the government i stayed in the navy for two years after that and then stayed in the government for four more years and i knew i couldn't say anything about this because it remained classified until chris mellon uh and lou alessandro were able to secure the release of those videos i believe in 20 I'm trying to remember the exact date.

I don't remember the exact date, but that's in Lou's book, Eminent. Yeah, I haven't read that yet. I'll have to check that out. I mean, I've heard him talk to you. I mean, it's all of these are names that I've now heard. And, you know, they're circling. You guys are kind of at the top of the zeitgeist with this stuff.

It's just good expression. Yes. Yeah, it's. I mean, you mentioned transmedium objects earlier as well. Was this formation transmedium? Did they come out of the water or did they only pick them up when they were in the air? To my knowledge, only in the air, but who knows?

Other objects like the one filmed by the USS Omaha of Southern California in 2019 did go in the water. And again, this is something that was not just, it wasn't, again, a known object that happened to just fall. It was... being observed for a period of time hovering and again without blades and flight control services and means of exhaust and then it moves slowly into the water and and that just then and there's been other other instances of this and i've done my own personal research where former submarine officers have come to me talking about very anomalous objects they've they've detected on sonar moving at very high rates of speed faster than anything that we've been able to produce So we know there was that element of this too.

Well, some of them are large too, right? These things that they're picking up on sonar underwater, like massive, massive. Well, I don't know about that. I mean, there was one instance where this hydrographic ship, the type I operated on, right after World War II, USS Maury was doing a hydrographic survey with a single beam sonar.

And it reported basically... rapid shallowing for a pretty extensive length of duration and length of transit meaning um a hundred a few hundred yards and they went to retrace their survey and the the object was there was no object there the regular depth the deeper depth of the water was was what was indicated and this was a very clear echo it wasn't off for example a school of fish or a plankton it was a hard echo uh so that and actually these objects if you want to talk about the the undersea UAP phenomena.

There's a really good book out there just recently released by Richard Dolan, A History of USOs or Unidentified Submerged Objects. And he's done some very painstaking research just to capture eyewitness accounts over the last couple hundred years. And the whole body of work is pretty compelling. Oh yeah.

I mean, I'll have a reading list. I'm sure after we're done on here, I had one from listening to some of your other interviews, even just prepping for this where it's like, God, man, I, you know, I have a whole lane to go down now too. I, and I've been, I've been reading, I guess.

Yeah. I think the only books I've really been reading around this so far are Diana Pasolka's books. I've been talking with her team to try and get her on here for like nine months now, but. She's really wonderful. Her books are outstanding. In fact, she has a latest one.

She has American cosmic. She has encounters and her latest one is called the others. Yeah. And I graciously, she let me review it. And I wrote her a review and I think I'll be, I think I'm on the back cover, but that's awesome. It is. It's monumental in my opinion for this field, because she's the first person other than Jacques fillet, but he's done that in every book he's written really, or not every book, but many books.

where she really looks at the modern intersection of UFOs and AI. So NHI, non -human intelligence, and AI, artificial intelligence. And so that's really the latest and greatest on the topic. And everything she touches turns to gold, in my opinion. So I'd encourage you to try to get that one too.

All right. Your reading list is growing. I'm about halfway through that one. Yeah. Her, her team sent me the audio book. So I've been listening to that and it's, it's great, man. I mean, all three I've, well, this'll, I will have read all three of them once I finish this one.

And yeah, she's, that's great. She's a stud it's and it's from a different lens too, which is it's neat. And it's, it's kind of followed this almost a trajectory of tracing it, you know, from. old religions now through more modern times than now she's starting to look almost into the future and yeah it's it kind of it touches on on some shifts that i had noticed i so because you've read it i mean the specifically when she was talking about uh peter teal and in his you know, these lectures that he's been giving on the Antichrist.

And I had noticed specifically in the past year and a half or so, I really, being a tech guy now in the software space, I love listening to interviews with the, you know, the CEOs and the founders of these major tech companies, a lot of which are, you know, now are circulating, have their hands in the defense industry.

And I've noticed a shift where it seemed all of these guys out of Silicon Valley now, are all of a sudden very outspoken christian and i don't know at least in my anecdotal experience that doesn't seem to have used to be the case or it wasn't talked about and it almost seems like it would have been a circle where that would lean more atheist i think like like you assume what scientists are here a lot of scientists talk about and it's weird now it feels like they're positioning themselves i think in the in the public eye that it's a it's not to say some of them aren't genuine but it does feel like they're the the trend or the overall shift of all of them seeming to do it at least the ones again that are at the heads of these defense companies seems a little disingenuous to me and so her when she starts addressing that in the book i was like it's it sucked me in so i've Listen to like four hours of it in two sittings.

So that's been great. But yeah, in this whole space, it's really difficult to know who's really speaking the truth. And that is my main motivation, by the way, because I don't make a dime off any of this advocacy or research. I'm just interested in knowing what's real and what's true.

And that's not a I think that's a worthy cause. I mean, what? we've, we've covered aerial and submersible now. I mean, what, what do you think it is? Do you think it's, you know, some people pose that it's, these things are coming from the ocean. Some of them pose that they're coming from space or all of the above.

I mean, you, your world was the ocean and we've not charted a whole lot of it in terms of the, the, the full, the full planet. I mean, it's, yeah, I can't speculate. There's all sorts of possibilities. This could be a, civilization that evolved well before us and decided to seek some kind of residency or refuge either under the sea floor or who knows there's the interdimensional hypothesis we just don't know and i i can't i mean it's only speculation to say otherwise i think it's very likely that you have this these two facts the one as you said the ocean is very unexplored and unknown and undersampled so 27 % of the seafloor has been mapped to modern standards.

That leaves 73 % of it just totally question mark. And the same goes for the ocean volume. Only about 10 % has been monitored and observed with drones, buoys, and remotely operated vehicles. So that's a giant, that's a huge part of our planet we know nothing about. And then you combine that with the fact that these objects remain elusive.

They're not presenting themselves in a way that is creating a permanent sort of engagement that allows for data collection and whatnot. So they're obviously trying to stay at a distance, even though they do show up and they have interactions. And so combined with that, then if there's a place that they wanted to maintain some type of occupancy and not be detected in a sustained manner, then the ocean is the place to do it.

So that's why I think learning more about the ocean. might help us learn more about UAP. When you were leading a lot of that stuff, obviously as the head of NOAA, I know you guys, I mean, there's the story of you and Victor Vescovo, right? Like the, in Challenger Deep or partnering to explore that.

Did you lead that? Thank you. Yeah. Yeah, I wanted to ask you about that and this drone fleet that you had led. I know that you talking about it was the first time that I've ever heard anyone talk about us having submersible drone fleets, which, I mean, it totally makes sense, but it's just not because it's not something that you see.

I don't think anyone is really aware of it. Yeah, that's right. So we, first of all, in my Navy career, I was an oceanographer and meteorologist and hydrographer. and some of that work involved operating a fleet of oceanographic ships uh six seven now and uh they uh they deploy these underwater drones to measure water ocean seawater properties so suddenly temperature pressure depth And you use that to make a 3D model, a predictive model of the ocean that's critical for anti -submarine warfare operations using sonar and detecting subs and avoiding being detected for our U .S.

subs. So that drone fleet is about 120 of these things called ocean gliders. They operate for months at a time. And yeah, and now we were using their, I mean, drones are now pervasive in military operations. And you've seen that really come to the fore with Ukraine. But we were doing this 15 years ago.

And in fact, I participated in the very first oceanographic ship launched, operationally launched drone deployment, ocean drone deployment of one of these gliders in 2004. And I was on the staff of this. uh one star admiral who's in my book a lot his name is tim mcgee and i eventually took his job as the one star in charge of all of oceanography and this guy was just fantastic leader it was his vision to get more ocean tech out there in the hands of our oceanographers and and have know the ocean better than the adversary which is just like in the marines you know high ground gives you a tactical advantage well there's a high ground in the ocean and it's knowing the properties of the ocean better so you can use either sonar or even optical detectors and sensors to to avoid detection and so that's thinking about the high ground of the ocean is what i gave my job was to give that to our our the navy navy's fleet and uh yeah so that's that was then and then um fast forward then i became my work in the navy was i was an oceanographer and meteorologist and i ended up supporting the navy which had about um Oh, 300 plus thousand sailors and officers.

So my job was to keep the Navy safe and help them operate better by knowing the environment. I go to NOAA. I was appointed by President Trump as the acting administrator and also permanent deputy administrator. And I was in charge of a larger workforce, 20 ,000 folks that are contractors and federal employees.

And our job was to basically. put weather and ocean data in the hands of all Americans for safety and economic advantage. And that was about 330 million people. So I had to really up my game from 300 ,000 to 300 million customers when I went to NOAA. But it was the same kind of idea.

Give them good data about the weather, about the ocean that they can apply. Weather for safety, for aviation, for just driving or even going to the beach on a holiday. and ocean related info mostly for uh commerce and uh like port support operations and efficiency and uh and ocean data is used um in uh other applications for example uh ocean conservation like coral reefs and marine mammals and those kind of missions so gave you just that was just a quick download on uh what i did in the navy and knowing why these professions of oceanography and meteorology matter No, that's – I've wanted – I usually do these in more of like a more casual pace of going through people's stories with stuff like this.

But with only getting an hour and a half with you, I wanted to make sure – like I'm not trying to ignore that stuff. So I hope you didn't feel like that with the way that I started this. No, not at all. It's just we can go about this any way we want, Zach.

It's all good to be with you. What? I mean – you guys were 20 years ahead of your time well you know well i guess 15 years at least ahead of your time doing that stuff in in 04 it's how how big are these drones and then also i mean whether it's noah and i'm sure you know with the naval navy side of the house you can't talk about a ton of this but i get the mix of drones underwater in terms of doing this recon and getting a delay of the land versus you know do we like along our coastline do we have static you know sensor arrays stationed around the continental united states to be able to read on these things and for something like noah in a civilian aspect we do we do zach in fact so the drones i owned i'd say we were pretty cutting edge and That was just the nature of our specialty.

It's a technical science specialty, oceanography. And yeah, so we were always on the leading edge of that tech. And I'm glad. And now you see drones right where our specific type, it was called a glider. And it operated on the principle of changing buoyancy. And so if you increase the buoyancy, it would...

raised vertically and then you put some wings on it and then that would allow both vertical and horizontal motion and then when you remove some buoyancy then you end up going down so do a kind of a seesaw pattern around the ocean on any given linear track to measure the water column and over time vertically and horizontally but then you have these other drones and i've worked for several companies that have either surface drones for example we're talking about ocean ones uh that have a basic or you could vary in endurance and speed and some have different types of propulsion uh the gliders i own they weren't very high speed but they were long endurance now you can see like the drones being used in the black sea by ukraine they're they're high speed and carry uh ordinance and munitions so there's all types of types ours are strictly ocean sensing Yeah, the Navy and the Department of War is really going out in all types of drones right now and expanding it and working to create swarms of them and actually really advance the tech so it's not just a single type.

It's something that can go between the bottom undersea and the surface and vice versa from the surface to the air. I think it's, I forgot the company, but one company has recently launched a surface drone that can launch an aerial drone. So it's sort of a mixed hybrid.

The idea of just hordes of these things cruising around is so terrifying. I mean, we've seen it with, again, the Ukrainians are kind of at the forefront of this. I feel like for at least testing these tactics of opening up a container ship full of drones and then unleashing that in a bay or wherever.

I mean, it's... That's the future. And it's happening now. So we just sort of, I think we can't avoid it. And so it's best for the US to be in the front. And that's what I do for my day job now as a tech consultant. I work for a number of companies that are in this space and doing others too.

Yeah. Are you helping these companies that are working on these? these different applications of it i mean is it that they seek you out for this knowing that you've kind of been at the forefront of this stuff for 20 plus years now and how does all that work yeah exactly so that's what happened is i left uh the government after i left noah in 2021 I just set up a consulting business, LLC, and folks have come to me for that exact reason because I have contacts in the Navy and at NOAA and other science institutions who want this tech.

And so I'm a connector. And I love the job because it keeps me really current with all the new startups that are doing this kind of work. And I love the culture. And I love my government federal service. I really enjoy the sailors in the Navy I work with and the officers as well as the civilian public servants and scientists at NOAA.

But you get in this in this Silicon Valley world and they're very people move fast. They are love to innovate and they're very creative. And so the creativity is a lot of fun to be around. And yeah, so I've worked all together with several dozen companies on and off.

And I just I'm enjoying it greatly from space companies building really neat satellites that are doing things I never thought I'd see. And as well as ocean and weather. Like what? It sounded like there's a special interest in this space. So what are they doing? Oh, a couple.

Well, one is I work for some that one of this is a GPS alternative. So this is really cool. They're called Zona Space Systems. They're right there in San Francisco. And they're so GPS ops operates in a kind of a mid Earth orbit altitude and orbit. This company is building a LEO, low Earth orbit constellation of dozens of GPS equivalent satellites with a signal that is 100 times stronger.

And there's a big issue. I've done this. I've sailed in the Arabian Gulf. And there's a big issue about what they call spoofing and jamming of GPS signals. And that's very, it can ruin, it can cause safety of navigation issues as well as your ability to. effectively detect and detect targets and, and kinetically attack.

So you have to targeting and data positional data. And when you have your GPS blocked, this creates problems. So ultimately this company is going to fix that. Plus there's a huge civilian market now for, for in urban areas, you might notice, I don't know if you ever noticed this, but in urban areas, it's really, sometimes you're losing your, let's say you're using a, like an app like Waze or whatever that connects to GPS to give you routes.

And that has a hard time. GPS gets the signals it interfered with in urban environments. And so this company has a solution for that with a more powerful signal and lower satellites. That's just one. I could go on. There's a commercial weather company that's very accurate too, and they're doing the same thing.

LEO satellites that are measuring the atmosphere at a very high resolution. Much better than the government satellites that we used to own at NOAA. And that kind of innovation is just all over the place. Yeah, man. I just – I love that deep tech stuff like that where it's just brainiacs where you – I mean that's a different kind of human being.

It's just the intelligence that someone like that has to be coming up with those ideas and iterating on them to the point where they can bring that to fruition is just – I love. I love hearing those people talk about whatever they're nerding out on. There's something about that.

Well, there's a lot to say about U .S. frontier tech right now, and certainly in the private sector, because what I've seen across the board is that all of them have said, okay, they've identified a real interesting problem. For example, this weather company, they noticed that NOAA satellites, the revisit rate.

So when the satellite takes a measurement or an image and the next image it would take, is it four hours or eight hours or 12 hours? And we had this long revisit rate. Meanwhile, the weather changes. So if you have a four hour revisit rate of a satellite going over the same location, well, damn, you just saw a lot of front move through and you're not even able to capture it.

This company has a one hour revisit rate. They're called tomorrow .io. with their satellites and they they're collecting the most important parameter uh which is is um there they have a a microwave sounder uh that measures the precipitation and apparently the water in the atmosphere and which will then allow better prediction of precipitation and therefore flooding which is where most people get killed in a weather event uh and i know because in my book i talk about losing our entire home in hurricane katrina in 2005 uh we were 28 feet of storm surge, the highest storm surge of anywhere in the country ever.

It was in our neighborhood of all things. And that's another story, by the way, if you want to pivot to tech, there's a lot of lessons learned from that for me, then leading a big weather and science agency afterwards. Yeah, I mean, we can talk about that. I was really, I was curious, I mean, about all this stuff, but, you know, the...

um specific tech stuff but also i know you guys were some of nasa was funding some of the stuff that you guys were doing when you were at noah which i'm very curious to pick your brain on then also i mean that it when you partnered up with victor viscovo i mean that i've never heard of something like that happening before was that like a Was this a nuanced thing that you had come up with to try and achieve something that the government wouldn't do by itself?

I mean, all of the I want to hear about all this stuff. Yeah, this is good. This is good. It's a great line of questioning, Zach, because yes. So now let me kind of back up here and then we'll talk about that specifically. So my book, Holding Fast and Heavy Seas, is primarily about what I learned in the Navy about leading and then how I applied it at NOAA during.

Trump's first term. And it's just no secret, whether you like the guy or not, that Trump is a challenging executive to work for, and thus the title holding fast and heavy seas. And so one of the problems we faced as a science agency is we were taking big budget cuts, the White House, and I think in some cases, it was fair to fund more defense, for example, they were cutting other agencies like ours.

And so how I had to think I was trying to find ways to win. Even though we had some pressure, we had some politics, how could I make the agency do good, continue its mission, make the people feel supported and valued, which to me was job one as a leader.

And so what we did is we thought about these creative partnerships and other types of efforts. One was exactly, as you said, Victor Vescovo. We ended up signing a partnership agreement with him, put our oceanographers on his ships. He shared his data with us. And, and that's, and it was, we worked together and he had a very capable ship, the, the, oh, what was it called?

The pressure drop. And he had a submersible, the limiting factor that dived in all the deep trenches of the ocean, the five worlds oceans. And then he dived on some other areas too. For example, for us, our job to map the USEEZ, he ended up mapping all of the Aleutian trench for us, which with, with multi -beam sonar, high resolution.

And that whole area had never been mapped to modern standards. So that was a big win and important for all these economic applications, like, first of all, safe vessel navigation, as well as commercial and recreational fishing. And then even fisheries management requires habitat modeling and all that. So a lot of really big economic wins from that data alone.

And so we did that with Victor, but we also did it with a number of these. And this is our idea. Partner with some... partner with the billionaires who want to do things in the ocean. And there were many. There was Ray Dalio, and he operates OceanX, and he has his own ship.

So we signed an agreement with him. Then Paul Allen had a ship called the Falkor. No, the Petrel. Pardon me, the Petrel. So we signed an agreement with him. The Schmidt Ocean Institute has the Falkor, now the Falkor II. And this is Eric and Wendy Schmidt. So they had an ocean institute with a ship.

So we signed agreements with them. So the idea was, okay. And we did this in a lot of other areas. All right, we got budget cuts and we got other challenges, but let's just go find ways to win. And that was partnering with philanthropies and the private sector.

Another example, too, is, OK, so we're taking budget cuts. That means, all right, I don't have all that I used to have. Why don't we find ways to be more efficient? So one thing I did get to happen at NOAA was we stood up the agencies first. drone program so it was called the uncrewed systems operations center i got a new i actually got new money which is which was almost a a miracle given the environment to get new funding from the trump administration but we did we got 14 million i think the first year it's up to 35 million now to basically advance uncrewed systems drone operations in all domains for our mission which was by the way a really improvement in efficiency because ship time for example can cost anywhere from $15 ,000 to $50 ,000 a day.

But if you have a fleet of drones doing it, you're not doing it at orders of magnitude less cost and more efficiency. Wow. And I mean, that's just for like a research ship. It's that expensive per day? Yeah, yeah. And so for us, we had two ocean -going research ships that also would do the missions of some of our other ships.

And that was hydrographic surveys, again, mapping our EEZ, our Exclusive Economic Zone, for safety of navigation and the other reasons I mentioned. Then we also had fisheries survey ships, and they specifically used sonar and nets to determine species abundance and distribution of various commercially important and recreationally important fish stocks.

You're in Colorado, so there's not too many that come to mind there. But I know you were – were you out of Pendleton when you were in Colorado? I was, yeah. Yeah, so there's some big fisheries on the U .S. West Coast that – different types. I mean, there's offshore fish, and then there's – sardines were a big fishery that collapsed.

I forgot, one of the 50s or something. And then so our job at NOAA was to monitor different fish stocks. We also had – you have others like sailfish and billfish. Pardon me. And so these are big and important ones that drive big industry. And so the idea is measure the amount of fish and then help these, what they call fisheries management councils, set catch limits so the fishes don't get overfished.

And again, so that sardine fishery that collapsed in, I think it was sardines. I might be confusing it with anchovy, forgive me. Fisheries are really complicated is my point. But ultimately to prevent a collapse from a fishery, you have to set these manageable catch limits. And that was our job.

And now, you know, U .S. fisheries are probably over $200 billion of economic gain a year in the U .S. So it's really important, economic engine. Were they, because this is actually something I was curious to ask you about. I mean, were they recovering, I guess, or were you seeing, you know?

like you said that that specific fishery collapsed we know that the ocean in general is is over fish like the the estimations of of ocean life at least the the ones that we consume are way way down do you and do you think management like that is is can recover it or is it hard because there's so many different governments at play here and obviously then people you know We'll do shady things and ignore the controls at hand.

But, I mean, in your experience, did you start to see some of those numbers come back up? Yeah, so here's a quick history of that issue. And so in the U .S., a number of our fisheries collapsed in the 70s or so. I have not studied this history in a bit, but it was something I was very familiar with when I was at NOAA.

But many of our fisheries, because they weren't managed. And so NOAA was established about 50 years ago, a little longer. And eventually we developed the science mission. And now we have a whole line office called NOAA Fisheries, the National Marine Fisheries Service, that began to gradually help stocks recover by setting catch limits.

And now NOAA does this in concert with what they call Regional Fisheries Management Council. So we do the science. We turn the data over to them. And they would set catch limits to help socks come back. And so by the time I got to NOAA, and we still are, NOAA is the gold standard around the world for sustainable fisheries management.

And they actually do issue a report on our fisheries every year. And it's something, again, not exact numbers, but about 90 % of the fish stocks that NOAA monitors, are not overfished. So that's how far we've come. And every other country would like to be as sustainable and managed like us, but it's not happening.

And China is the worst culprit. And they're not only overfishing very easy, they're overfishing everybody else's, like Ecuador's, you know, the Galapagos Islands. So that's a real big problem. And that's something I would work with the Coast Guard on and the DOD or DOW, whatever you want to call them, to combat illegal fishing.

So that was one of our big missions too. Yeah. And that's where my comment came from about like people ignoring it. I mean, you hear, you hear about that stuff constantly. I mean, they're doing the same thing with their coal refineries. I think they spun up like 600, I think it was 600 different coal refineries, but between like 2024 and now it's like, you know, it's on all of these different, like the big touching points of like, Hey, we're ripping things apart.

It's. Yeah. I've written a couple articles on this and I'd be happy to send you. And ultimately, yeah, China is by far the worst environmental actor on the planet. And when I was at NOAA, I ended up working on something that few people really appreciate. But the National Security Council in the White House had a number of campaign plans that were oriented towards basically deterring or countering China's negative influence all around the world.

Our specific focus at NOAA was our Pacific island nations that we were working to make us become preferred partners rather than China. And so it was a whole range of environmental things we would do either in a way that we were either training and educating them or building their own host nation capacity.

And I'm talking islands like Palau, island nations like Palau, Micronesia, Marshall Islands, and then partners around the Pacific like South Korea and Japan. All of them had our... shared our environmental values. And we would help them with things such as coral reef restoration. Of course, the greenhouse gas monitoring you alluded to with coal plants.

And then sustainable fisheries management, for example. And what else were we doing with them? There was, yeah, other work too. Actually mapping, mapping their EEZs. So just so they could then. manage the habitat for fisheries. And actually weather prediction. So something that right now there's a huge super typhoon in the Western Pacific.

And so that's a real resilience issue in terms of making island nations and even just our Pacific partners be ready and prepared for disasters. And so you'll see this just like with hurricanes that I mentioned in the U .S. In my experience of losing a house to a hurricane.

So just helping our partners with that was a huge win in terms of they would want to work with us when we share good information and data and models. And meanwhile, the Chinese, we just want to basically suck them dry economically. Yeah, it's, you know, I have a hard time with the, because there's such a big industry around green energy of knowing.

like yes obviously humans are having an effect we also know that some of this stuff is cyclical so it's to what extent are we having an effect or how much how how much of that would have happened anyways but it is undeniable that like they are they're doing a lot of damage regardless of of how much of a direct impact we are having on on this cycle and it's yeah it's interesting i really i think this is It's exciting that AI is going to drive this push back towards nuclear energy, and it already has been.

Google, and they're not the only companies doing this, but Google is spinning up a couple of their own nuclear reactors just to power some data centers. And there's some of these companies coming online with the small modular reactors, which I don't like the idea of. you know kevin next door having a reactor buried in his backyard because there's going to be some hillbilly bullshit that goes on with some of those i'm sure but you know uh you know small towns having their own and things like that or or counties and things like that i think it's uh i mean amongst everything else there's the the level of innovation that's going on in every realm of the world right now is just it it's mind -boggling it is and zach i i just have to wonder what's it going to be like in a hundred years or or a thousand or a million and actually because right now the advancement gosh my mother my grandmother was born in 1900 and so she went from having no no airplanes or means of flight to seeing the space shuttle before she passed away at the age of 100 So what about us?

What are we going to see at the end of our lifetime? It's just moving so fast. It's remarkable. But this is an interesting argument. And this takes us back to UAP and NHI. So as Dr. Avi Loeb, who's now the chair of this new ODNI UAP Science Advisory Council, he's an astrophysicist.

So he's thought a lot deeply about this. And he makes the great point that it's very possible. We're newcomers on the cosmic block. Our Earth has been around 4 .6 or so billion years. The universe is 14 or almost 14 billion years old. So that that creates a lot of room for other civilizations to evolve highly if they're there.

And we think there are way beyond us and maybe even to become extinct before we even emerged. So think about a billion year old evolutionary process. And it's almost scary to think about what might be. But that's the sort of open, you know, clear -eyed view we have to take with this topic.

Yeah, well, and even it's, I mean, that's another deal. I mean, one day I would love to talk with, but it's, I've been, do you know who Graham Hancock is? Yes, yes. I started reading his books. I'm reading Fingerprints of the Gods right now. And specifically, it's... he's really just pushing back door.

He's focusing down on Peru, at least in the, you know, I'm several hours into the book, but, and we continue finding these older and older civilizations, but where the, all of their old oral traditions that eventually were written, a lot of them have the same stories of, you know, the great flood also down in these, these different parts of South America, they all have stories of, you know a jesus -like figure coming it wasn't it it seems like it could have been i guess it would like descriptions were more of like a spanish -looking person but it seems like it would have been you know a seafarer that could have come from somewhere else and when they they go back and date some of these structures that are above ground not that's totally ignoring the fact that you know in the 30 years since this book was written we're finding these temples that are at least as old and completely buried and intentionally buried that there are excavating but where there are some of these structures out outside of i think tio wanako where outside of one of these pyramids where there's you know it's several hundred feet of like this arrangement of stones and someone did the math to look back and see when this would have been aligned with the this the procession of the equinoxes it was like 15 000 years ago and so to have a a civilization in south america that long ago that was able to measure the stars that accurately and create something to align with it i mean it's you know how far back do we go and you talk about that with the pyramids as well and these big giant pillars that they found underneath them it seems like our own timeline here keeps going back and back and back so we could have had other iterations of us or you know separate branches of of what became homo sapiens that were here i'm sure of it i really am and i think again just like graham is with archaeology and history uh we're trying to apply the same open -mindedness to uh uap and nh high research yeah how did i mean what's the because you're on that council as well that you mentioned with avi correct yeah what is the The temperature on the room, I'm sure amongst you guys, there's obviously there's the professionalism and you guys are all in that space.

So there's probably not a lot of friction, but I guess the juxtaposition between that and what you guys are getting from the outside world slash the administration, how's all that working out? Well, first off, this is an effort supported by the administration. It's ODNI, Executive Branch Body. Office of Director of National Intelligence.

And the Trump White House is supporting it. We wouldn't be doing it, we wouldn't be in existence if we didn't have their support. So there's that. Again, and right now, we're going through the process of conducting research, requesting data. Our first job really was to make a list, and we have about 50 things on this list, of pieces of information or data.

that would allow us to do more research into the topic. And that's specifically, we're asking for metadata on a lot of the videos released by the Department of War. And I particularly, from my interviews with former submarine officers and other former military operators, I've asked for very specific data relating to under CUAP.

And basically the sonar data, the raw sonar data that we could process, I could take to a civilian research institution or university and have it investigated more for characterizing these objects. So that's what we're working to do is better understand, again, determine characteristics that will allow us to maybe conclude more about what their intentions are, what their true nature is, and so on.

Tim Burchett, I've heard him talk about this, which I can't remember if he's on this program, but I'm assuming he gets read in or briefed on this stuff, thinks that there's bases in somewhere under. It sounds like he's talking about the hot spots that I know I've heard you talk about as well.

And it's I guess, have you gotten any insight into? Because I think I feel like on one hand, you hear about the stuff getting talked about in these encounters. being in proximity of nuclear sites whether that be missiles or vessels that are nuclear powered and but that there are also like off the the east coast where ryan graves squadron was having these encounters and then off of the coast of san diego there seems to be more hot spots where all this these things seem to happen at a very high frequency relative to everywhere else i mean have you guys started getting a read on any of of that and why that might be or started to hone in on sources for those those hot spots or seen things coming in and out of those spaces yeah well first off zach i i this alien base thing that birch had who i met with several times okay i i don't know where he got that intel from and i've never seen it myself i'm not dismissing it i just i've not i have no knowledge of those i've never seen but there's interesting interesting thing here uh the bobby ray inman was the director of national intelligence i believe and naval admiral an admiral and he later after he became a civilian he spoke in one public setting about an entity called the national underwater reconnaissance office which would be the equivalent of nro but for undersea and And he had not admitted the existence of the office.

No, the government has never admitted the existence, but he did in this one public talk. And I found that interesting because I was the ocean otter for the Navy, and I was read into compartmental programs involving undersea data collection. And I never heard of the National Underwater Reconnaissance Office, NURO.

So how is it that I didn't know about that? So it makes me think maybe there must be, if the DNI had stated such a thing, and it must be so highly secreted, if you will, classified, that even me, the one -star oceanographer for the Navy, wasn't even read into it.

So that makes me think there might be, there are likely underwater phenomena that are just so... compartmented that I wasn't even allowed to know them. Now, that's speculation. That's not definitive. What's definitive is that what you said, is that we know with certainty, and Robert Hastings has wrote about in his book, UFOs and Nukes, that you're seeing attraction, interaction with nuclear facilities and sites.

That's well documented. And then you have anecdotally a pretty high frequency of occurrence next to nuclear -equipped vessels. So you had the Nimitz in 2004. You had the Theodore Roosevelt in 2015. You had the ballistic missile submarines. Three of them that I've had witnesses come to me and experience these very fast -moving objects that are totally anomalous.

These were ballistic missile submarines. All three of them were what we call boomers. Okay, those are all nukes. Talk about one of those. And that is something, those are patterns we want to better identify. And that is part of our research and our request for data. What stories are coming from the submarines?

Yeah, as I mentioned, I only have very brief accounts, but three different types of submarine, two officers, one enlisted crew member have come to me and they've shared with me stories about. objects closing with them rapidly, forcing them to do what they call emergency deep maneuvers. And I think because they thought this might have been some adversary or even a potential foreign torpedo threat.

And in both instances, these really rapidly closing objects slowed down, moved behind them, and got very close, approached very close. And these speeds were in excess of 80 knots. There's technology that can approach that, but it's not. It can't stop on it doesn't stop on a dime and do the maneuvers that they both recounted.

And so that's again, I want to get my hands on if it still exists. OK, have you been happy with the documents that have been released so far or do you feel like stuff's being. I have a mixed set of opinions, really. I mean, I am I'm definitely glad that what you have is this.

You have open admission by the government that they have been keeping. UAP information, secret and classified for a very long time. So the full body of work that's come out, reports dating back to the 50s, including multiple agencies like CIA, FBI, Department of War, videos. So they're just openly admitting that we've been keeping everything classified and covering up our knowledge of objects we can't identify.

So they've admitted that through the releases. That's huge. I'm a little... disappointed because the consistency and true intentions are still i would think not fully uh transparent because for example there was one file released called the lake huron ufo shoot down that's what they title it well we know very well that lake huron object over lake huron was was a chinese five limb so why do they label it ufo why do they title it ufo is that is that deliberate to deliberately use us i i don't know so Ultimately, I'm encouraged that the Science Council has been established and we at least have a charter now to research these objects more fully.

And our composition is impressive. These are real serious scientists with credentials. So that's encouraging. And I'm going to stay optimistic that we're going to learn more. Yeah, I'm conflicted on it. Because, and I haven't read the files or anything. I mean, it's not a great thing to be trying to go through with a screen reader.

I got you. I don't get to watch the videos. It's hard because I can talk to someone like you and get your sense, but I also feel like sometimes... The government releases things to distract people like this is. You know, I'm not over here. That's a very high possibility.

And I do address this in my book. And I might really anger a lot of your fans or not. I don't know. But this is this is a truth that that telling the truth in the Trump administration the first time around was an occupational hazard. And my book addresses that squarely.

Again, it's all about speaking the truth to science. And sometimes. It was very difficult. It's even harder this time around, and so I have to square that with what we're doing with UAP, and I'm not sure where the dust is going to settle on that one. I'm not trying to drag you into politics, but...

Can you expand on that a little bit more if you're comfortable with it? And again, you don't have to be I guess my I've never interacted with President Trump, obviously, but he's got a it's got a certain reputation. And so I guess I'm curious in the. Because this could apply to any anyone who gets heads up in power in our country or any other where.

There's a certain personality or maybe closed -mindedness, it sounds like, to where if the truth doesn't align with my views of the world, then this might stifle progress. Is that the sense that you're getting? Well, right now, with respect to UAP, again, I'm not sure. There's some good indicators.

But again, the full transparency that has been promised, I think, is not – I'm not made any conclusions yet. It remains to be seen as my conclusion, really. Respect to my experience in my book, I don't know if you're aware of this, but there was a kind of a very well -known publicized event that was called Sharpie Gate.

And it came from this time where the president had tweeted about the storm Hurricane Dorian in 2019 as it was approaching the U .S. And in his tweet, he was operating off of basically a days old forecast from the National Weather Service where there was some uncertainty about the track.

And he had mentioned some states that might be at risk and included Alabama. Well, this was this was old information because by the time he tweeted that we had a very good lock on the on the future for the future track of the storm. And it was clearly going to recurve in the Carolinas and go out to the Atlantic.

And Alabama was clear. Well, the weather offices of the National Weather Service in Alabama started getting all these phone calls. Hey, are we going to be OK? Do we have to evacuate? And so they put out some, I guess, social media and releases just saying Alabama is going to be fine.

Well, handlers at the White House interpreted this to mean, OK, they're contradicting the president. We need to shut that down right now. And so and then Trump came back later. And there was all this debate in the media about this. And he came back a few days later.

He ended up taking an old forecast track, a big graphic on cardboard, basically, official product of the National Hurricane Center that gave Torian's track. And what he did, and they call this thing, it's a famous product. It shows the track is one line, the predicted track, but there's a sort of cone around it that widens over time because of the uncertainty.

of the forecast. We're good with our models, but not perfect. And so there's a range of possible tracks there. And he ended up, somebody on his staff, what appeared to be a Sharpie, and he used Sharpies to sign all his big executive documents. In fact, my appointment letter was hanging right here in my office.

It was Donald J. Trump with a big Sharpie. Really? Yeah. And so someone appeared to have drawn a big bubble around Alabama. just to defend his tweet that was, again, wrong and old information, ultimately. And so he shows this in the Oval Office during a press briefing, talking about Dorian, and he says, oh, yeah, well, luckily it recurred, and it's not going to be a problem for Florida anymore, et cetera.

And that was that. And what happened is the American science community went, they were shocked, because here it is. This is a life -saving, a life. potentially life and death product here forecast product affecting millions of americans on the east coast and he he he is defending this day's old tweet uh and and uh and and ultimately it just was a big scandal uh and and we were getting criticized left and right our agency for this there's more to the story people really want to hear the background of never before uh backstory on this it's in my book uh okay and it's it's again it's about speaking the truth to science and and it wasn't a good chapter uh not for our agency and certainly i don't think for the administration and that's what we want to avoid in the future yeah it's a bad look um i mean on the flip side we saw the same thing during covid where scientists are telling you that you know if you question anthony falchney then you're questioning the science and you're like yeah i like this but this is good this is good you're right there is the other side and we know for a certainty there was a chinese lab leak and and there was all this defense against that then and and i get that was that was a major fail the other way exactly yeah and that's it i think you and i are aligned let's just let's just talk the truth let's let's face this truth head on yeah and i i just i try and all i'd like not be you know go either way on this isn't a political show i just it's it's every it's everybody it's hey and i'm with you it's like there's some great policies so like i said that the we were able in the trump administration uh i was a part of it and there's some good people who came back that i still think are doing great things but again the book is really about okay challenging times let's figure out how to win and get successes again the drone program we stood up the the ocean mapping effort we led.

And there were some others, coral reef restoration plan, a whole plan to combat and strategy to combat marine pollution. That was a big win. In fact, that's the only time I ever got in the Oval Office with the president. He signed a bill called the Save Our Seas Act.

It was bipartisan and it's a good story. It was NOAA's program to clean up trash in the ocean, pollution, discarded fishing gear. And that was a win. That was a win to get that bill reauthorized. And there's a funny story about it. I don't think we have time to go into, but again, if any of these appeal to your listeners, it's all in my book.

Okay. Yeah, we got 10 or 15 minutes more still, if I can still squeeze the full hour and a half that you said you had, if you're cool with that. But, you know, I really, because you've, you know, the other side of this, we focused a lot on the ocean today with some of the stuff that we talked about, but you did talk about.

the the space side of things as well when you were running i think you said it was the observatory when you were in the navy and working with astronomers there and then obviously you've gotten to work with guys like obby lobe and i'm sure a bunch of other people from that world now and i know when one of the things that or at least some of this research that was being done.

I don't know if it was in tandem with you guys partnering with these wealthy adventurers, but you mentioned that some of this ROV research that you guys were doing was also, NASA was looking at using some of this to drill into ice on exoplanets that we know have water on them.

Is that correct? Well, more correctly, sorry, accurately. So we're a long way, I think, from ever going to an exoplanet. There's moons of Jupiter and Saturn. I kind of forget which one's which. One's Enceladus and one's Europa. Both are believed to be ice covered and have potentially liquid ocean cores or something like it.

And so NASA ended up funding research for us to do remotely operated vehicle work, basically taking... a drone connected to a tether with cameras and sonars and and manipulator arms to gather samples and tethering it from a ship to go explore the ocean and this is a program that that bob ballard the discoverer of titanic founded and used to discover titanic using these remotely operated vehicles and he perfected it and we ended up reproducing his system on one of our ships to do exploration and not only that we ended up funding other ships do the same kind of thing And it's really neat because these ROVs go and they look at ocean water column and discover new species all the time.

And then they go to the seafloor and see new features and also different forms of life. And our scientists end up live streaming this video to classrooms and all around the world. And I would sit on my computer sometimes in offices with senators and show them the live streaming of a ROV on the seabed somewhere in the Pacific.

Finding some new cool species. It was really, really interesting to do. Yeah, NASA paid for us because that technology was something they hoped to potentially use when they land a rover or something on one of these moons. And if they are able to drill through the ice cap, maybe go discover this off planet ocean.

Yeah. Oh, and even, you know, if they never found something there. again you go that deep enough in the ocean here and that is that is alien life i mean any compared to us everything in the waters is is absolutely alien but you look at a lobster i mean it's like a it's hard to to imagine that yeah yeah there it all sorts of sea life is is just totally alien you're right about that nothing like us so it's very yes it's a great example of the diversity of life and then And I think let's go back to UAP and NHI.

Yeah. I have looked and studied the ocean for four decades. And recreationally, I've dived on many coral reefs around the world. And with my wife, who was a Navy diver, I'm very proud of. And she has a big role in my book. And the diversity on a coral reef is absolutely stunning.

There's just so many different types of life. Corals are a form of life. They're alien themselves. But so to think that if. we have so much diversity on our own planet why wouldn't the whole universe be as diverse in terms of life forms and intelligences so it's uh again i and actually avi love says this it would people think that finding alien extraterrestrial non -human intelligent life would be extraordinary in my opinion it'd be extraordinary if it if we were alone right yes that'd be the extraordinary thing it's obviously life is diverse and it's here yeah i think it's it's here i think it's elsewhere as well and i i suspect it's just not on the same paradigm that we're on either if it does exist and maybe it's maybe it's a lot smaller so uh whatever even if it is it's microbes it's you know maybe it's not them it's on a their metabolisms run on different processes so we're not even looking for the kinds of outputs you know the gases and the atmosphere that we would need to look for and things like that or Well, right.

Just recently, there's been discussion. David Grush mentioned this at some congressional event at the Capitol that I was a part of, that all these orbs that we see that seem to be under intelligent control. He suggested that these plasmoids, plasmas might be a form of life, which is odd.

And I think, again, all that we need to do is research this. We've applied. research techniques to verify life forms biological life forms for some time uh from before darwin let's do the same with these and these objects and see if we can determine one way or the other yeah it's all it's fascinating and i have a million different rabbit holes i still want to take you down but i said this is how much of your I could probably sit and talk to you for four or five hours about all this stuff.

It's that your career is absolutely ridiculous. And then the fact, again, that you are absolutely lumped in that umbrella that you allotted for David Fravor and Ryan Graves and all these other guys of being courageous. Coming out and talking about all this stuff, because I'm sure you get some probably nasty, crazy mail from people for for for talking about all this.

But it's just all of it, man. You know, staying strong and speaking to the science, all this stuff that you're doing is awesome. And I appreciate you coming on. So I'm looking forward to the audio book. But for people who can read, where could they find the book?

Thank you, Zach. First, let me say. Thank you. I could not say no to you and I get a lot of requests, but the courage you're showing in just stepping up through the adversity you've been through. And I really care about veterans and veteran mental health. And that's probably the biggest takeaway I want to have from our meeting here, our podcast, is that you are a gold star of an example of pushing through challenge.

And I think my book, is just a little, I mean, barely scratches the surface compared to what you've lived. And so I just want to give you a lot of applause for your courage. And so mine pales in comparison to you. But the book, you can get that at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, online, or even my website, timgallaudet .com.

Okay, awesome. And I'll have all that stuff linked below. And thank you for that, man. That means a lot. Got anything else you want to point people to before we wrap this up? No, let's just hope I like to, I'm going to share this with and hopefully get you on more people's radar.

That would be awesome. I want to speak with so many people in your circle. So like if one of them sees it and they'll come on or I mean, these tech companies, that would be cool. So just, man, thank you so much. And yeah. Thanks for sharing your time.

It's a pleasure. It's great to connect with you, Zach. Thank you. Yeah. And thanks everyone at home for listening to another episode of Going In Blind. Again, it's hard with people with so much background and experiences like Tim has, but I think there's probably some good. Good stuff for you to chomp on and think back through and go check out his other interviews in this book to go get insights into these stories.

I know I'm looking forward to it again. If you've been listening for a while, please leave a rating and review wherever that is. And then if you're on YouTube, subscribe to the channel and share these things around. But other than that, I will see you next time. Bye.